Then why call him God?

Oh, man. What a past few months it's been. I am still here. I have not forgotten about my blog! I've been extremely busy! It's getting better. I'll post more soon, but want to share this gem:



Isn't that the truth? It really is the quick and easy guide to God. I know, I know, logic hurts. It's painful, but it's gotta be done. Theists will go down the arguments in this chart, and conclude that "God works in mysterious ways." Well, that's just bullshit. If he is almighty, all knowing and all good, working mysteriously serves no point. It is just a cop out that theists give God; they try to pretend that all the pain and suffering is part of a Master Plan. God is all knowing, all powerful and all good? Ok, fine. Take a look at this picture:



Look at it. Really look at it. If you are a theist, understand that the God you believe in sees this too. He knows about it, and all the other horrors of the world.



He sees this too. He knows about it, and he can change it, but he doesn't. He is so powerful and so loving, that he does nothing.

If he was lonely and created us, he could have made us to be completely perfect. He could have designed the world in any number of ways that would have not made suffering and evil possible. If you had the power God has, wouldn't you abolish suffering? Or would you keep it around, just to be mysterious, because it works into some nebulous Master Plan concept?

If that's God's plan, it sucks. I don't care how powerful and loving he is--if this is the best he can do, God is either not very powerful or a complete sadistic asshole. Under what circumstances is it ok to allow these things to occur? None.

If there were a man who knew about his child being repeatedly stabbed, for example, and this man could put a stop to the stabbing and immediately heal all his wounds, but he just... didn't... we would be outraged. The morality is the same. God doesn't get his own custom morality unless you want to believe that morality is relative. But since God's law is eternal, unchanging and just, I doubt many theists believe that morality is relative (and for the record, I don't either, but for different reasons).

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God? - Epicurus

Most of the credit goes to you!

Time after time you will hear religious people praise God for his help in the accomplishment of their successes. Let's ignore for now (and this is difficult!) how frequently God completely ignores millions of other cases of starvation, abuse, disease and destitution. But never you mind, he's busy.

These people will say that they did something by the grace of God, or that God blessed them, or that they would be nothing without God--any number of variations. When I hear this, I get extremely frustrated, especially when it is directed towards me. I feel a lot like Eliza Doolittle, actually.



In this scene from My Fair Lady, the men are congratulating themselves exuberantly for having pulled off their goal: training the cockney Eliza well enough so that she passes for an educated Englishwoman at the ball. They completely ignore the accomplishments of Eliza herself. "Now wait, now wait, give credit where it's due. A lot of the glory goes... to you!," Higgins says to Pickering, ignoring Eliza while she is standing right there.

Last week my partner's father was commenting on how "blessed" we are. We live in a beautiful house, make good money, are generally very healthy and have a good relationship. We take care of our house, our bills, our cars, eat well and have some very nice furniture and such. He kept on and on about how everything we did was because Jesus had our backs.

The truth is, we are "blessed" because well, yes, we have gotten lucky, but mostly it's because we have been wise in managing our money, and have worked very hard to get where we are. It took me over six years to finish my college degree because I worked my way through and did not take on any student loans. We both have very little debt, and what we do have is for vehicles. We both have two vehicles, and one of each is paid for--the second could be sold to pay for itself if need be (that being said, I will never take on debt again as my financial philosophies have changed, but that's another story). We have a fully furnished office, fully furnished guest room, a 65" tv, baby grand piano, pool table, an exquisite China cabinet, and a high-end gun safe for our pistols and other valuables.

We rarely buy anything new. All of our vehicles are used, though you wouldn't know that by looking. 90% of our furniture is used, and we don't buy it unless we practically steal it. You would be shocked at how little our furnishings cost. We scour Craigslist, eBay, garage sales and antique shops, and trust me, it pays off. Practically everything used always needs a little TLC, but we're very handy, and our things look brand new. I have things that are 10 times nicer than my broke friends who don't realize they can buy used. All but a few of my fine jewelry items are pawn shop finds. I buy my clothes on eBay, at Goodwill, and at discount shops like Marshall's. If a business is going out of business, we are there to get some deals on things we need. We haggle and barter for everything. We buy one thing at a time, and it's taken us 3 or 4 years to get to where we are. I hope it is only the beginning. I drink my wine on my $75 leather couch from my $0.25 Goodwill wine glass, and look good doing it.

My point is, of the things in life that can be controlled, we can and do control them. We are very responsible. We are creative when it comes to problem solving. Sure, we have fun too, and we definitely buy stuff we don't need, but it's kept to a responsible minimum. We have not saddled ourselves with debt, and we have not burdened ourselves with children.

Nothing that we have done, have accomplished, or will accomplish in the future has anything to do with God. As Higgins says, we must give credit where credit is due, and the glory of our "blessings" is from our own blood, sweat and tears. We have worked our butts off, made [mostly!] wise choices, and it has led to a nicer life.

My father-in-law had the audacity to claim that my partner's life was saved because of Jesus protecting him. When he was a kid, he fell down a hill and collided into an edge of a picnic table with his throat. He's lucky to have not bled to death, let alone still have a voice. It was extremely traumatic for him and his family, not only physically but financially and emotionally. He had to have multiple surgeries over several years. And his own father can seriously look us in the eye and say that Jesus "protected" him. Jesus is a shitty protector, then. Maybe next time he could just prevent the incident from happening at all? My partner was saved because of receiving quick medical attention, and having some excellent surgeons. Humans did a hell of a lot more to help him out than God, and they were able to do so because of their own hard work and sacrifice for years to get their medical training.

I wish people would give themselves credit for the good things that they do. The idea that God is a silent, invisible puppeteer is beyond ludicrous. I can't tell the difference between him being his silent, invisible self, and him not existing at all. God is gratuitously given credit for all the good things, but for the bad things God is mysterious, or everything happens for a reason, or some other excuse. Convenient, isn't it? It makes no sense at all to congratulate God for my good job when others are starving. Why am I worth more than them? Why can I eat and they can't? If God works in mysterious ways, then he needs to get hit shit together, and quick, because that system is not working.

God protects and heals you... but you still need doctors and medicine.

God will get you a good job... but you still have to gain experience, get an education, prepare a resume, apply and do an interview, and you still have to show up and do quality work.

God will hear your prayers and help your relationships... but you still have to listen, compromise and show respect.

God will help you with your financial woes... but you still have to work, get your money organized, be on a budget, pay your bills and set goals.

God will help the poor and abused... but you still need to volunteer at shelters, donate money to charities and the church.

It seems that we are doing all the work here. God is like that irresponsible guy you get stuck with in speech class for a group project, who is never around to help study or prepare, yet on presentation day he wants credit for his half. And if God were really looking out for you and your family as a result of your prayers and worship to him, then statistically, believers would have better health and lives than non-believers.

If I am able to buy a car, it is because I worked and saved up money and paid for it. If I am injured and surgery saves my life, it is because of competent medical professionals and my own body's natural defenses.

There is no reason to believe that there is an almighty, all-knowing, silent, invisible being floating around, ensuring all your successes yet is mysteriously absent for failures and hardships. You'll do much better to recognize the reality of your own power and creativity, hard work and ingenuity.

--BadSec

Thought of the day

Do you want to know yet another reason why I am an atheist? No? Well, too bad. Here it is.

If God were real, he would make himself known, make himself seen and heard. There would be interviews with God on the BBC, David Letterman and Fox News (CNN does not get first dibs, are you kidding?).

But God is not visible, audible or tangible. The best believers have to go on are ancient texts, ancient stories, traditions, dogma, "personal experiences" and feelings. I'm not impressed. All of this "evidence" reeks of humanity.

Instead, the fact that we can't actually discuss questions with God, get clarification for anything, settle disputes, or hell, feed starving people and inform murderers in the error of their ways? stop wars?--these things indicate that either God has no care about earthly suffering, or doesn't exist. However, not caring about these things is completely contrary to any concept of the character of God of which I am aware.

Do you really think that God is so petty, so butt hurt, that he sits up there in heaven and refuses to help people because they're not perfectly good, and he's pissed off about it? So he sits there, lip stuck out, refusing to help people--except football players and actresses in their acceptance speeches--and is content to let us believe that while he loves us SO GODDAMN MUCH that he sent his only son to be sacrificed for our own salvation, he has to stick to his mysterious plan and let us suffer? One would think that the author of the plan could change the plan and come up with a better plan that doesn't include pain and suffering! This God is an asshole, or woefully inept.

Think of all the religious disputes that exist or have existed, from minor theological quabbles to violent wars. God appearing, making his existence known and administering commandments, would stop the chaos instantly. We wouldn't argue over dogma, or have religious wars, and the possibility of atheism would be ridiculous, laughable! We would have no choice but to, at the least, believe in the one God.

The theist is sitting here reading this, saying to himself, "Oh, God could do all these things, just doesn't want to." Well, to hell with that! Dare I ask, does the same moral code apply to humans? So I can stand by and watch people starve, be raped, murdered, etc, and take a picture for my scrapbook? If God does it, so should I. Supposedly God is perfect and benign and unchanging, so his moral code must be totally awesome.

If I had the power that God supposedly has, I would eliminate all suffering and wrongdoing immediately. I would appear to my people, get to know them and let them get to know me, and take everyone to heaven and have a wonderful, blissful eternity. I'm human, and I can imagine what I would do with that kind of power--yet we are expected to worship and believe in someone who can do all that things, and simply doesn't?

God is supposedly benevolent, loving, just, merciful, all-knowing, omnipotent, etc. I'm pretty sure that someone with those character traits would be able and willing to make the universe a perfectly lovely place, regardless of free will. Free will shouldn't be a cop out for God to let things be shitty, especially for innocent children who have no ability to help themselves.

He either doesn't give a shit, or he doesn't exist. The latter makes much more sense.

Theological inconsistencies about the Devil

This video makes some great points about the inconsistencies concerning God's omnipotence, Satan's power and the system God put in place to test-and-then-save us pitiful human beings.



“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” -- Epicurus

--BadSec

Fun with a Theist!

Oh happy happy, joy joy. I've found myself engaged in a God discussion with an evangelical theist. *giddiness* She is a very sweet girl, but after the millionth FB post about God, I couldn't stand it any more.

Generally, I am getting slightly more open about my lack of beliefs publicly. It's taken me a while to a) figure out what in the heck I believe and don't believe (and this process is still just beginning), and b) investigating arguments, forming my own conclusions and feeling confident about them. Listening to the Atheist Experience has greatly helped.

So, for your amusement, here are a few posts made that I responded to (I am "J.R."):




But this is the fun one. I'll copy and paste the text, and will call my theist "Emma":

Emma: If we truly believe God is sovereign, we must be willing to accept that he is sovereign over literally everything. There is only one degree to sovereignty......and only one being who ever was or will be. that is God.

Me:So his omnipotence and sovereignty mean he can squash our Japanese brothers and sisters with a tsunami just because?

Emma: I believe in God's word and it says that God does these things to make the riches of his glory known. Satan's goal is to twist the truth and make us see these things from a worldly perspective and in turn, reject God. We have to stop dwelling on these things and consider God's ultimate purpose. There is a great picture. (like an impressionists' painting) You have to be willing to step away from the painting to make out what it truly is and to see the beauty and glory of it all instead of just seeing one piece that appears to be nothing more than blobs of paint that are a waste

Me: I think I understand what you're saying. Considering that "God's word" (I'm assuming you mean the bible, and not the Koran or some other holy book) tells us that God is all loving and all powerful, it makes no sense to me that such a being would allow disasters to kill hundreds/thousands of innocent people, least of all for his "glory". What kind of glory is that? If he really is so powerful and loving, can he not accomplish such glory without bloodshed and suffering?

I don't think it's Satan twisting my brain to think of this from a worldly perspective. It's me using my own God-given brain to rationally analyze the situation. We're told that God loves us and is the most powerful being in the universe. So then why would his plan include any of us suffering? Does his might make right? In other words, since he is omnipotent, does that power somehow give him moral authority to hurt us senselessly?

Emma: well for starters, i do mean the bible. personally, i cannot regard any of those other books as "holy". you say "god-given brain" does it mean you believe in God? im in no way trying to offend you. its just that if you dont, i think we are having the wrong conversation. if you are not engulfed in the love of God, your rational brain is not capable of understanding what it truly means for him to be sovereign. we could go weeks before seeing an end to this discussion

secondly: none of us are innocent. if we were given what is fair, we would all surely see Hell and live it every day of our lives. It is through God sacrificing his son's blood that we are given a chance. but we throw it away like it was nothing. like it didnt even happen. its a slap in God's face.

our god-given brains decieve us. we give ourselves too much credit. we cannot possibly rationally analyze situations. it is only through God that we can begin to understand purpose and meaning for this world. God is able to straighten what is bent. he has destroyed cities since the beginning. and his glory was made known every time. Good always follows. like i said. we just dont see the whole picture right now. the old testament is nothing but God leading his people to restoration. and he is the same God today as he was on the first day he created earth.

Me: I'm open to the belief in God, but don't see sufficient evidence at this point. I'm curious why you disregard the other religious books and choose to only believe the Bible, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. You did not offend me by your question in the least. :)

As to not being engulfed in the love of God...you are correct, I do not believe that I am. But what you're implying terrifies me. If I were engulfed in the love of God I would somehow understand his complete sovereignty, that is, I would submit to it. Do not abused women similarly blindly rationalize their lovers' abuse? Don't they tell themselves "oh, he loves me"? I think it is a very dangerous thing to believe that a) someone has power/sovereignty over us, and b) that makes their mistreatment of us ok--i.e., the might makes right argument. I find that highly immoral. If it's wrong for us to cause the death of innocent people, why is it ok for God to do? He has a different ethical code just because he's more powerful? Sounds like a tyrant to me.

Yes, we definitely can rationally analyze situations and we do it everyday. It isn't until we base beliefs on things without evidence that "faith" comes into play, and we suddenly start telling ourselves we should believe in something that doesn't make sense. If God exists and gave us brains that are equipped to rationalize, why are we required to put our brains on hold when it comes to religious matters? Shouldn't faith make sense, too, if brains and faith both originate from God?

I agree that we can't always see the whole picture of the world. But again, if God is so powerful and loving, why would his plan allow senseless suffering? Is not God more powerful than Satan? Our concept of God insists that he abhors evil and loves us to no end. So either our concept is incorrect, or God is a jerk who like to toy with us, and keep Satan/sin/suffering around.

Egads, if God today is the same as the OT God...! His kill count is in the 1000s, and he kills people for the smallest things, even babies. I can provide plenty of Scripture for you if you like. He also really digs the smell of blood and thinks slavery is A-ok. Doesn't sound like a nice guy to hang out with.

She has yet to respond back, so that's all I have for now. But let's summarize what we've learned about God and his murderous Japanese tsunami so far:

1. God is infinitely loving, powerful, and just.
2. God decided to send a 8.9 magnitude earthquake offshore of Japan that resulted in a tsunami that has (so far) killed hundreds, destroyed people's homes, businesses, etc.
3. God did this because in his infinite wisdom can see his whole plan for the earth, and decided that the tsunami would be a productive method of making the "riches of his glory known."
4. This disaster is for the ultimate spiritual good of humans, and we are too ignorant to comprehend the mighty ways of God and his mysterious plan for us.

My conclusion? God, if he exists, is a tyrannous dick.